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Thinking about closing this site

Jay Dougherty

Jay Dougherty

Mangling Member
Editor
Hi, everyone:

Pretty much every editor, except Ray, has become inactive (as editors), including me, and it's understandably very difficult to recruit editors, as Ray can tell you, as he's been trying valiantly for months. So rather than keep what amounts to a zombie site running, I think I'll have to shut this one down at the end of the year. I don't have the drive to keep this one, and it's generally not a good idea to let a site run for a long time unattended, which is what I have increasingly done.

It's sad for me to have to consider this because I know the place has become a regular haunt for those of you who come here. I've also put a lot of time into the place, and it works, technically, which is saying something, given how I've constructed the place.

I'm not 100% sure about this decision yet, but I think it's only fair to give you a heads up about my thinking. I would not sell the site to keep it running. No one would buy it anyway.
 
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Considering what's coming over the next 4 years I would miss the safe harbor of this site. It's where I pitch my tent with others of the same ilk. But you shouldn't put our needs/desires over yours and I support any decision you make. If you decide to close I would only ask for a couple weeks lead time to retrieve any of the personnel posts I have here that I don't have saved elsewhere.
 
OAF has been my go-to place of temporary sanity for quite awhile. I'll feel cut adrift and have to quote my poetry to my stuffed animals. My art will go into the drawer. I truly appreciate what you guys have done and honor your wishes. Herding poets and artists is a mean feat. I hope to see or hear of you again somewhere. Whoa is us.
 
Barry Burgess said:
OAF has been my go-to place of temporary sanity for quite awhile. I'll feel cut adrift and have to quote my poetry to my stuffed animals. My art will go into the drawer. I truly appreciate what you guys have done and honor your wishes. Herding poets and artists is a mean feat. I hope to see or hear of you again somewhere. Whoa is us.
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Thank you for expressing how I feel, too. I already have my stuffed animals lined up.
 
Is there a way to set up OAF as an online writing group without a publication presence? It could be membership based with a modest annual fee. The editor role would simply be a facilitator to moderate rants and set a tone as a place of same exchange and feedback on work. Anyone know about these kinds of things?
 
Ann Kammerer said:
Is there a way to set up OAF as an online writing group without a publication presence? It could be membership based with a modest annual fee. The editor role would simply be a facilitator to moderate rants and set a tone as a place of same exchange and feedback on work. Anyone know about these kinds of things?
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Aye, Aye. I would be so into joining -- an annual stipend.
 
Jay Dougherty said:
Hi, everyone:

Pretty much every editor, except Ray, has become inactive (as editors), including me, and it's understandably very difficult to recruit editors, as Ray can tell you, as he's been trying valiantly for months. So rather than keep what amounts to a zombie site running, I think I'll have to shut this one down at the end of the year. I don't have the drive to keep this one, and it's generally not a good idea to let a site run for a long time unattended, which is what I have increasingly done.

It's sad for me to have to consider this because I know the place has become a regular haunt for those of you who come here. I've also put a lot of time into the place, and it works, technically, which is saying something, given how I've constructed the place.

I'm not 100% sure about this decision yet, but I think it's only fair to give you a heads up about my thinking. I would not sell the site to keep it running. No one would buy it anyway.
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Jay—I’m very grateful for this site which I found less than a year ago. It runs beautifully. If you don’t mind, could you say what is needed to run the site. Also, could OAF merge with another site or venue—be the online version? Please excuse the direct and unfiltered questions. Certainly, considerations are a lot more complicated than my questions. Thank you, for posting your thoughts.
 
Ann Kammerer said:
Is there a way to set up OAF as an online writing group without a publication presence? It could be membership based with a modest annual fee. The editor role would simply be a facilitator to moderate rants and set a tone as a place of same exchange and feedback on work. Anyone know about these kinds of things?
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There is a similar, free site with a larger membership that some of you may be familiar with called Poetry Circle. You just have to register. It doesn't have a Front Page, but a lot of its structure is similar to OAF.
 
Raymond Huffman said:
There is a similar, free site with a larger membership that some of you may be familiar with called Poetry Circle. You just have to register. It doesn't have a Front Page, but a lot of its structure is similar to OAF.
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Perhaps a place to go if OAF is no longer. Although I found it too big and too unresponsive and not satisfying like OAF. Thank you Ray. Thank you Jay.
 
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Raymond Huffman said:
There is a similar, free site with a larger membership that some of you may be familiar with called Poetry Circle. You just have to register. It doesn't have a Front Page, but a lot of its structure is similar to OAF.
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In order to post and reply to posts with no limits on PC it costs $20 a year. My take is that it is very clickish. & it operates without editors & without any of the other forums other than poetry. We gotta convince Jay not to give up on us. More editors so that Raymond is not overwhelmed & more donations to cover the costs would be the best solutions - right, Jay?
 
Mike Casetta said:
In order to post and reply to posts with no limits on PC it costs $20 a year. My take is that it is very clickish. & it operates without editors & without any of the other forums other than poetry. We gotta convince Jay not to give up on us. More editors so that Raymond is not overwhelmed & more donations to cover the costs would be the best solutions - right, Jay?
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Sorry, my mistake. I forgot that unlimited posts thing. It's been several years since I was active there. It is an inferior experience - you're right about that. I'll see if I can find a good list of alternative sites people could check out.
 
Mike Casetta said:
In order to post and reply to posts with no limits on PC it costs $20 a year. My take is that it is very clickish. & it operates without editors & without any of the other forums other than poetry. We gotta convince Jay not to give up on us. More editors so that Raymond is not overwhelmed & more donations to cover the costs would be the best solutions - right, Jay?
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Thanks for bringing that up Mike. I would be willing to contribute more dollars to keep OAF going. I think we have a real special group here . . .
 
Would it be reasonable to limit work load through limited days for collection, such as: Submittals collected 'once per week' (per editor experience) and collect an annual/bi-annual/monthly fee? I appologixe, I am a luddite in the web universe.
 
Sherry Cassells said:
Are you looking to save it, Jay, or are you pretty-much done? What can we (I) do to help?
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Saving it in any form requires that I be present, and that's not something that I can guarantee anymore. I'll think it over, but the fact is that this model of running a site w/ volunteer editors has proven to require constant effort to recruit new editors, as they eventually get tired of the work, burn out, or just become involved in different things. So there has to be someone in charge to constantly recruit, train, etc., and I'm worn out. Ray (who has been shouldering the brunt of this work for some time) is tired of being the only one keeping the place afloat, too. Plus the place has never really covered costs, despite the generosity many of you have shown, and it doesn't get enough traffic to make advertising work.

So it has to be run by someone who does it as a kind of labor of love or hobby, and I'm probably too worn out for that. Appreciate your gesture, though.
 
Ann Kammerer said:
Is there a way to set up OAF as an online writing group without a publication presence?
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The place could become just a forum, yes (that's actually part of the name of this site). But that still requires oversight, as eventually someone will join who tried to spam the place or blow things up. You really can't have a community site running with little to no oversight. You're setting yourself up for trouble if you do.

I'll think it over, though.
 
Mike Casetta said:
More editors so that Raymond is not overwhelmed & more donations to cover the costs would be the best solutions - right, Jay?
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On the editors, yes, but Ray has been diligently recruiting people for months now, and they all say thanks but no thanks (probably wisely, as doing this well does take time). The model is probably unworkable, which is why almost no one else does this on the internet (to my knowledge). Well, also there's no money in it, and most of what's online these days is profit driven. This site never has been.
 
if there was an easier way to post a Front Page as an editor, i would've happily done it. It's just so complicated. I felt I couldn't master the complex steps!
 
This is actually not about my "work load" at all. My concern is partially about the diversity of the FP selections (being made mainly by one person). But even that misses the whole point as Jay has described above.
 
What if one of us (or many of us) threaten(s) to go on a hunger strike if Jay decides to close down OAF?
 
Jay Dougherty said:
Sure. Two components: money and time. The former is always posted here: https://openartsforum.com/forum/donations/site-support-for-2024.7/campaign. But honestly that's probably insufficient. The latter is more important: time. Run a site like this, and you need to be here. I'm on the verge of retirement and have a bunch of related preparations that are occupying my time and attention.
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Thank you Jay. Could we organize a reading/fundraiser? Or a shameless online fund raiser? I’ve got ideas.
 
Douglas Goodwin said:
At last. Fuck working, man. You need to live. I've been retired for eleven years. Totally recommended. Watch from the sidelines. Let them lose their souls. You'll see.
Freedom.
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On the other hand Jay, if you want to walk—it’s been brilliant! Everyone gets to rest. Except, I heard, the wicked….
 
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